A week after the conversation with Davide Maria Oldani promoted in the series of meetings of 'Food a regola d'arte,' hosted by the 'Leonardo da Vinci Museum of Science and Technology in Milan,' I find myself in Sala Biancamano for the meeting between Carlo Cracco and Matteo Gatto (Director Tematic Spaces Expo Milano 2015) moderated by Beppe Severgnini.
The meeting is scheduled for 12 noon but I arrive inordinately early, as is my habit, and this time I don't make a mistake: at 11:15 I get in line and am second, but within half an hour the line of people aspiring to be able to attend the conversation stretches all the way to the front door and I, satisfied, don't even think about how tedious it is to stand for three quarters of an hour because I know it will be worth it.
There is great excitement in the hall and one can see many hands shaking while we poor devils in the audience can only remain passive spectators.
At about 12:15 p.m. it seems that the meeting can begin and the three speakers take their seats.
Beppe Severgnini starts off on the right foot, inviting all those who took part in the meeting only to hear about cooks, Mastechef and popularity to leave, since the topics discussed would have been of a very different nature: above all, the intent is to provide clarification on the ideas that will be proposed at the Expo, avoiding generality, rhetoric and the patina of 'already heard and taken for granted' that often accompanies events of this magnitude. Said like that, it sounds obvious, but the objective is really challenging, especially considering that the questions were not prepared at the table and the topic is sensitive, although Beppe admits that he has known the chef for several years, who recalls that their first meeting was in 2004.
The first question is addressed to the director of Expo's Thematic Spaces, Matteo Gatto, and is particularly interesting in attempting to explore Italy's role within the universal exposition; in fact, Beppe asks how it will be possible, given our long tradition in terms of the culinary culture of which we will be standard-bearers, to cover this role while avoiding passing for those who want to (quote) 'be the first in the class.'
Gatto explains that as much as it is undeniable that our history is linked to food, the Expo event does not stop at proposing a single recipe but at investigating broader and more relevant issues, such as solutions to get to feed the whole world on a daily basis and do it in the right way. Italy's role, in addition to being the bearer of a real culture, is to transmit to the world what we do best, that is, to add the component of 'conviviality' around eating, of being together at the table, taking advantage of the exposition to be heard by the right interlocutors and introducing the theme into a broader event that aims to investigate delicate concepts such as the relationship between abundance and deprivation, between sustainability and respect for the environment, framing them in the right perspective. In this perspective, the contribution becomes not only that of the country but of each person who has his or her own micro-story to offer, according to the principle that Davide Rampello explained in a simple but incisive phrase: 'Stories of food, stories of men.'
At this point, a brief parenthesis on some data opens up: number of areas (5), number of clusters (9) but also the importance of a space that will be completely dedicated to food in relation to art, namely the representation of the culinary world in painting from 1800 to the present.
Finally, Cracco takes the floor and first recalls his visit to the Shanghai Expo, an experience structured completely differently from the one in Milan, in that it had been an opportunity for China to demonstrate its strength and foster the country's internal growth by promoting an exposition that was first and foremost for the Chinese, so much so that the line for foreigners who wanted to enter was nil, while that for residents resulted in perennial, endless kilometer-long queues. Our Expo will be quite different, with a very heartfelt but also open-ended leading theme: from the history of food to discovering what we eat, from imagining how we will feed ourselves in the future to showing that we, too, have much to say on these topics. In fact, the chef reminds us that we often complain about the measures that are taken by the European Union, but that in reality the strength of this Union of States lies in letting everyone propose an ordinance, and only those who are able to impose it, finally succeed in getting it approved: in this sense we have much to learn, to try to make our point and build something that will remain. If in fact our history is undeniable, it is also true that there are countries that are much more advanced in food communication and make the most of their potential, as opposed to Italy, which is flawed in some fundamental issues. Just to cite an example, Cracco explains that we should stop having our traditional products produced outside of Italy, because by doing so we are not defending our wealth, which is rooted in the land and manual skills: it is not enough to be good at craftsmanship and asserting our history, but we must also protect and develop them. The chef's wish is that the Expo will turn into a general sentiment, an opportunity to define healthy and sustainable rules for the public, a vehicle to rediscover our value and determine its parameters, but above all to convey the 'social' part of our tradition, that is, conviviality, without 'voracity,' but looking far ahead.
Severgnini cannot fail to emphasize how much the terms purely related to the world of cooking, on a par with those related to war and sports, have influenced our language today, and he does so by starting from expressions used by Cracco himself, such as 'shooting oneself in the foot,' 'being voracious,' and also adding 'putting meat on the fire. He then returns to the topic of discussion, sharing Carlo's thought that the European Union with its measures regarding food safety are fundamental and that without such rules the agricultural world could have been wiped out; then taking this topic as a cue, he asks how it might be possible to protect our goods without arousing the irritation of other states that produce the same materials as us. The journalist focuses the question particularly on oil, the production of which has even been discussed by the 'New York Times.'
The chef introduces his response by pointing out how sensitive the topic of oil is, given the vast production throughout the Mediterranean basin, from Greece to Spain. The types of olives that exist are so many and all different, not all good. Italy holds the most for different regions and types, some for blending (to be added into other oils), others monocultivar (to produce oils of only one olive variety). Olive growers in Italy number in the triple digits, but it is still the large companies that hold most of the market. More expensive types of oil are still used only by enthusiasts and high-end restaurants. In any case, Italian extra virgin oil production is the largest in quantity and is practiced even in areas far from the sea; the problem is that this quantity is about three times the cultivated area of our territory, so it means that olives are imported. The subject matter is certainly new to many of the audience, so the chef explains that once olives, like any other product, are imported and processed in our country, the resulting end result will be considered Italian, and the buyer will have no way of verifying the origin of the raw materials, since by law it is not required to be written on the bottle.
During Cracco's speech, Severgnini had mentioned the DOP and IGP recognitions that the chef explains are very important in determining the areas of origin, which are never indicated on the packaging of oils produced by large industries that, buying abroad, have as their only concern the fact that the product is not 'bad,' but often does not even turn out to be real oil; he then closes by debunking the myth of cheap oil: if the price is between five and eight Euros, it is impossible for it to be a good product. It often happens to him too, he admits, that he wastes time at the supermarket trying to read the label, which turns out to be incomprehensible, since names and categories are used to classify that do not actually define the product: in short, a lot of chemistry but nothing specific, thus creating the illusion of buying a fresh product when it is not.
Gatto at this point would like to open a small parenthesis on the subject. He explains that his family is also part of the category of small producers and that since he was a child when he lived in Chiavari, his father urged him to join the harvesting of taggiasca olives grown on the terraces. In his opinion, the difficulty of harvesting the product is not worth the price at which it is sold.
At this point, Beppe changes the subject and launches almost a provocation, evoking the various food advertisements in which a ridiculous and artificial tradition is promoted that industrial products actually have the gift of rusticity, asking Carlo if this does not seem to him to be a negative sign.
The chef agrees, but clarifies that this is all part of commerce and marketing that have little to do with real tradition and food. Industry is indispensable, but it must follow the same rules that are imposed on small producers. In fact, the goal is to give preference to small and medium-sized companies but aiming for excellence in products, thus avoiding the emergence of crops on our land if they had never been grown there before precisely because of the lack of the right conditions to do so.
Beppe then turns to Gatto and asks him if it would not be interesting to devote an area of Expo to Italian Sounding, that is, to that series of products that are not Italian but are passed off as such abroad, using ploys such as distorting the name of Italian brands to increase sales, or if perhaps it would turn out to be too hot a topic.
He confirms his interest in the topic but admits that Expo still remains an opportunity to learn and improve, not a chance to promote laws and manifest the presumption of knowing what is right or wrong to do. What we are trying to do is to learn in our turn, putting actors in the field and using the expo as a stage to give voice to all. He is keen to mention an episode related to the ongoing relationship between the Expo organization and the FAO that will take part in it: the lesson this association brought was that you cannot have a solution for everything but rather you could move toward the most correct solution. Unfortunately, the event has not yet gathered the adherence of the big distributors but it still proposes to host so many protagonists to raise awareness on a single issue.
Severgnini proposes a reasonable explanation as to why the multinationals have not yet joined: the risk is to find themselves tried by a world court and then having to defend themselves. The next question is related to this theme, but focuses on the more 'superficial' aspect of the event, that is, whether there is not a possibility that it will become just a big talk show.
Gatto does not seem worried about the possibility, since if it were to happen it would still be useful. The topic is spectacular and will certainly attract countries that want to talk about the food issues that plague them, but it is equally genuine. In this debate, there will be no referee, but each government will have to look for solutions.
The journalist now turns to Cracco to ask him if these six months cannot be an opportunity to promote a 'food pedagogy' to countries that have yet to learn much such as the U.S., where Severgnini has worked and lived and whose food culture he recognizes great shortcomings.
Carlo admits that the Expo theme is very clear, but the difficulty of transmission is the great crisis that is changing the world and Italy, but about which he does not want to go into. The fact remains that we remain anchored on important economies such as fashion and wine, of which we are the leading producer by quantity. He then admits that boasting of this supremacy means almost nothing, but more important is to recognize that we also lead the list of producers of native grape varieties by quantity. Our potential lies in the land, which must be respected, since by keeping it clean and orderly it remains productive and alive, otherwise all those destructive phenomena such as landslides and flooding that we have often been and still are witnesses to would go on. Since the example of Liguria had already been brought up, the chef brings it up again, explaining how difficult it is to manage as a territory, while still enjoying important and essential fruits. This region is also the birthplace of the Mediterranean diet (actually not a diet as such, but a way of eating), which is now recognized as a UNESCO heritage site. Discovered by Americans who simply observed that in our meals we abound in carbohydrates and limit red meat, it is in a nutshell about the acquisition of good fats and the deprivation of saturated fats, thus promoting a righteous old age. No one in Italy really seems to care about this capital, while abroad there are real companies that specialize in studying and reproducing this lifestyle. What we are not understanding is that food as a product could become a real economy, and that we need to create an agribusiness development sector to then exploit it during Expo, an event that becomes a pretext for producing better and then exporting the products properly. It is clear that we are not working in this direction, as we often address the problem of how difficult it is to get raw materials abroad. To clarify this concept, the chef adds that it is no coincidence that when foreigners come to Italy they eat the simplest things because they are also the tastiest.
Beppe adds in this regard that Lidia Bastianich has explained on several occasions that she has had to give up creating certain dishes because of this lack outside Italy.
Carlo seems to be very sensitive on the issue and insists on the idea that instead of throwing away tons of tomatoes we should think about starting to sell them abroad, just as the French do, who have a market near Paris through which anyone going to work outside their country gets their supplies, and through which the same Italian goods pass before being resold. The question therefore arises: why not create the same market here? What we lack, he continues, is real belief in it, the idea of concrete growth in the domestic market. However, the promotion of products must be targeted and effective, without letting them be distorted and without letting the phenomenon of Italian Sounding take root, risking losing valuable opportunities. Just as fashion has believed in it, so should agriculture, from which everything starts, and cuisine.
Beppe points out that even fashion has lost some of its credibility, deciding to aim for quantity, and therefore having its garments produced outside and then just sticking the label on them.
After this parenthesis, he changes course and asks Cracco for an opinion on the strength of the human capital we enjoy. In fact, Severgnini explains that since the 1800s, Italians have continued to emigrate to Argentina, to bring, in relation, out of a total of one hundred people, ninety-nine workers and one young man who opened an osteria in which slowly not only compatriots ate but also residents, who thus recognized the value of Italian cuisine. The intelligence of the culinary tradition of the Belpaese lies precisely in this: being a cuisine that starts from the bottom, as opposed to French cuisine that is generated from the top.
Carlo completely agrees. The Italians were the first to open osterias, just as the French popularized restaurants. At the time of these early records, the head of the family was also the innkeeper, who passed on the tradition from generation to generation. Today, unfortunately, this practice has been lost but it still subsists to some extent and is the basis of our culture.
Beppe tends to point out that each of our regions enjoys a richness in terms of products and recipes that does not exist in any other state in the world.
Carlo is again in tune with the journalist's thoughts. If French cuisine has set itself the goal of being a high-end model, despite being in crisis at this time, Italy has always been the first rung of this food ladder, through the best products, taste and ability. Our goal is to spread wine and cheese, without the need to aim for a very high cuisine that needs explanation, and still needs the basics, which it is ours to provide. Our heritage is immense, and to make it concretely understood, the chef explains that a single region of Italy could certainly feed entire states with its resources. Certainly it is that the cuisine of fifty years ago can no longer be proposed today (if only considering that the way of working and therefore feeding oneself has changed, given that the work rhythms were much higher and the quality of work more demanding), but starting from it one must then develop.
By now the time for the conversation is over, but Beppe intends to ask Gatto one last question, to which he asks how it will be possible to deal with such important issues while trying to avoid the rhetoric into which one risks falling.
He replies that the possibility of that happening exists and is not negligible, but he is equally certain that all these risks need to be taken: many think that we will not get to the end of the work in time and the whole organization may become a big 'binge,' but the real challenge is to get there and try anyway. The guideline is the idea that something useful is being done for the country and on the proposed topic. Then he reflects on what he had said earlier and corrects himself: he closes by explaining that there will actually be a referee at Expo and it will be the visitors.
Beppe says he is satisfied with the idea that rhetoric was avoided in the conversation and everyone learned something new. Myself included.
