When interviewing a personality of your importance in the field of food culture you run many risks, including asking many questions that range across the board, trying to reconstruct a sketch of the interviewee's personality, which in the end often brings nothing new to what you already know. So if you don't mind, if you agree, I would like instead to focus on some of the aspects you have covered over the years trying to better understand your thinking.
This seems to me to be a very good approach.
Let's start with your most popular books, the ones in the Cooks Become series. I read them like this: they change the recipes a lot, but the substantive approach does not change, which I interpreted in this way. Do not feel inferior to your grandmothers, that regional and fundamentalist Italy of respect for authentic traditional cooking no longer exists, but this does not prevent you from being able to conceive of excellent recipes of territorial inspiration, paying attention to the quality of ingredients and knowledge of techniques and cooking Did I misunderstand?
No, the key of interpretation seems correct to me. You talk about excellent recipes of territorial inspiration, I emphasize the concept of inspiration: of an old recipe you have to save the soul, not the form. I have tried to convey this belief of mine: knowing the techniques, which in cooking is everything, and knowing how to balance the ingredients-the rest follows. I have tried to make people understand the importance of technique, of cooking procedures, this is the approach with which I designed these books, which are complemented by a more narrative part.
I believe that those who are competent in procedures and techniques, even though they may prefer the execution of some dishes over others, are competent in everything, those who always execute the same dish even to perfection, cannot be considered people who know how to cook, they are always half cooks.
Another very interesting experience I think is the book series The Gourmand Reader that you direct for Ponte alle Grazie, again, I understand that you like to mix past and present, territories and cultures. You go from books on Japanese cuisine to wild herbs, from Middle Eastern culture to apples, etc...
When you set up a new title, do you first think about the topic and then choose the author you think can best interpret that theme, or do you choose the author based on your preferences and then decide which topic to cover?
I don't follow a specific criterion, in this series the books are born in various ways. Sometimes, as in the case of Cooking Wild Herbs the book arrived practically already done, in other cases we talk about reissues as with regard to The Japan in the Kitchen and The Cuisine of the Middle East and North Africa. In other cases, such as with Marco Bianchi's books, the topics arose from chatting with him, whom I met by chance, and the books turned out just fine. In short, there is no general rule-and that is the beauty of editorial work.
I would like to understand your point of view well between traditional cooking, fusion cooking, ethnic cooking, experimentations. I have read a great deal about you over the years, and I have personally formed the opinion that you have a very simple, (and therefore far from trivial) idea of cooking, namely that it can all be summarized and distinguished into good cooking and bad cooking, without territorial, cultural and historical enthusiasms or penalizations, and that for you good cooking is that which does not cover basic flavors with fat or sugar. Is that so?
My mother was not a great cook and this was perhaps my good fortune, the freedom of mind that saved me from family rituals and traditions and allowed me to learn elsewhere, allowed me to read books without prejudice, and although -being of Piedmontese origin-I obviously love the good dishes of my region. I have a totally secular attitude toward food. Between a poorly made Piedmontese recipe and a properly made Afghan recipe, I undoubtedly choose the Afghan one.
As for excess sugar and fat, one must keep in mind that fat was once meant for that one feast day of the week and that fat was also used to keep food from sticking to the bottom of pots and pans. Today, the technology with which cookware is made replaces this function, and thus it is no longer necessary to abound in fat for cooking. Essentially we must start from the premise that cooking is three things. First, it is a transformation process that serves to make inedible foods into edible ones: raw potato or flour, but these are just two examples among a thousand, need transformation to be assimilated by our bodies. Second is the necessary sanitization of ingredients, that is, the elimination of germs through high temperatures. Third, it is the art of assembling ingredients in such a way as to make a preparation good, whatever that means, it is a cultural valence that changes every day and is obviously not the same for everyone, individuals and groups. If we hold firmly to these assumptions, it goes without saying that fat and sugar accessions have no indispensable function. They are a historical fact child of an era and its cooking techniques: but it is no longer a real fact today. Although the occasional nice greasy dish... I appreciate it...
Giorgio Negri's blog is that of the owner of a company that has been marketing bartending and chef equipment for 30 years, but it is also the blog of an enthusiast who is lucky enough to work with what he loves. So I ask you in your opinion what is the importance of correct and functional equipment in order to get the best out of your work as a chef or bartender ?
I believe that correct equipment has great, fundamental importance. From knives to pots and pans to all the modern technologies that help the professional rationalize time, cost and effort. Of course if one is a magician, a genius of cooking techniques, one can afford to make excellent dishes even with simpler or more rudimentary equipment, but since we have all the research and technology at our disposal to operate at our best, and since there are few magicians..., there is no reason not to use it.
Do you think that in the last ,let's say 20 to 30 years, that is, since the word technology has replaced the word experience and creativity is confused with manual dexterity, the professional world of chefs has made a real breakthrough, or in your opinion, there is little new under the sun?
I think that cooking has made enormous progress in the last 30 years. All cuisine, from haute to home cooking-I am convinced that in Italy we have never eaten as well as we do today. I think this progress, beyond the technical and scientific aspects, has also been facilitated by the Internet, which has made all information available in real time. It used to be that the passage of theoretical and practical information between one culture and another, between one continent and another was rather slow, but today, if a Korean cook wants to delve into a cooking technique, knowledge of an ingredient or a Ligurian or Basque or Peruvian or Australian recipe, he can do it in a few minutes, and this is really a great evolution.
One last question, if you want to answer me. Lately, the great Italian debate on the future of food sees two orientations that are equally interesting, but a bit antithetical to each other: on the one hand there is the neo-environmental and protectionist culture all leaning towards the niche agricultural product, see "products to save" a la slow food, on the other hand there is a rethinking of the Italian agricultural heritage -often disused- in function of a new agri-food system of a rational type where productions are organized according to territorial and national needs. How do you see it or at least, how do you see the agribusiness future of our country?
For me, food must travel. Local culture has value and meaning if it goes around the world, only then does exchange, deepening and activates new knowledge take place. I am against the concept of "Kilometer Zero." This, of course, does not mean that I am against a good local product, on the contrary, but it must then be offered everywhere: there is a word, a beautiful one, that defines this approach: glocal, that is, thought locally and offered globally. I bring you as an example the French Bresse chicken, which is considered the best chicken in the world. It is raised in a very small area, it is a local specialty, but we can find it all over the world. Even in Italy there are areas that raise very high quality chickens, equal if not better than Bresse chickens, but I have a hard time finding those chickens even in Milan. The problem with the Italian system is that the agrifood sector-but also in the industrial sector in general-is based on so many small realities, which penalize the circulation of our excellence. And then there is the traditional Italian inability to consort.
Around the discourse of the organized agrifood system there would be many important considerations to make, it is a very complex discourse, suffice it to know that agriculture consumes 60 percent of water compared to industry, which consumes 30 percent. This figure alone makes it clear that perhaps there are some aspects of our agribusiness cycle that need to be thought about or rethought.
Let's close with a question that seemingly has nothing to do with it, but in my opinion is always strongly revealing of the true nature of the person I am interviewing. I know you are a music lover, but what music do you listen to?
I listen to very little contemporary music, albeit with a few exceptions. I love classical music where I always take refuge with great pleasure.
Interview by Monica Palla
ALLAN BAY
He was born in Milan in 1949. He graduated in economics from Bocconi University in 1972.
From 1973 to 1982 he was involved in the sale of light bulb machines.
From 1982 to 1988 he was involved in illustrated books and scientific, technical and medical publishing (in Rizzoli and Masson).
From 1988 to 1994 he was involved in television productions.
Since 1995 he has been a journalist in the eno-gastronomic sector.
Cooking has always been his great passion, from great restaurants to the history of food. He has always cooked; it is his favorite hobby. He doesn't like tradition, he loves mixing different techniques and products. He really loves new cooking techniques, those of haute cuisine, unfortunately not yet cleared through customs with the general public.
He has been writing about cooking in Corriere della Sera since 1995. He edits the weekly column on Milanese restaurants in Vivi Milano.
From 1997 to 2009 he edited a weekly column on culinary culture in Il Diario della Settimana.
From 2003 to 2006 he was an adjunct professor of cooking at the University of Pavia, as part of the Faculty of Pharmacy.
Since 2004 he has been writing in Grandecucina, a magazine for professional chefs published by Reed Elsevier. Since April 2011 he has been its editorial director.
Since 2004 he has been writing in Azione, the Ticinese magazine of Migros.
Since 2007 he has been writing in Style, the monthly magazine of Corriere della Sera.
Since 2011 he has been writing in Corriere della Sera, on Saturdays one recipe at a time.
With Feltrinelli he has published a successful series of cookbooks. The first was "Cuochi si diventa," then "Cuochi si diventa 2," "Cuoco me" (for children), "La cucina degli altri," "77 ricette perfette," and a novel written by four hands with Camilla Baresani, "La cena delle meraviglie."
She edits the cookbook series "Il lettore goloso" for Ponte alle Grazie, 20 titles published so far. In 2008 he published with this publisher an 800-page, illustrated reference book entitled: "The Italian National Kitchen."
He wrote with Patrizia Bollo, a dietician, a cookbook for diabetics, "The Regions in the Pot and the Art of Healthy Eating" published by Folini Editore for Novartis.
With Salani he has published the Gabo series of children's books and a diet book, "The BaSo Diet," written with Nicola Sorrentino.
For Reed Elsevier he is editing a series of books for cooks dedicated to low-temperature cooking: the first dedicated to beef, the second to other meats, and the third to fish.
In 2010 he published with Mondadori "In My Kitchen," a description of the main kitchen tools of today and tomorrow.
In 2011 he published with Corriere della Sera a book on Milanese restaurants.
He wrote and starred in a series of cooking lessons for Gambero Rosso Channel entitled Cuochi si diventa.
With Roberto Toso, an Italian partner active in Germany, he designs and develops, even up to print if requested, illustrated cookbooks for the international market.
